EPISODE 05
Before the world was turned upside down,thanks to a global pandemic, and before remote working was the default choice for many companies, my guest today was an evangelist for both the freelance life as well as its remote application.
Today, he is a fantastic example of the belief that attendance is no proxy for productivity.
This is Freedom Unscripted with Roly Rosevear.
ACCLIMATING TO REMOTE LIFE
You're an advocate for freelancing and remote working - this almost seems like perfection in terms of those two things. I really want to hear this journey. So where can we do that?
Is this getting used to coming from the UK or London life?
It's quite easy for me to move and go and work somewhere else when you only have to worry about yourself. But when you've got family to take into account as well, there is a little bit of worry about, you know, how are the kids going to settle? But the kids have settled into school so quickly - it literally took them about two days and they've all got so many friends from all around the world, 50 different nationalities at the school. Playing with just such a multicultural group of people and just learning a different outlook on life.
When I was a permanent employee working in London five days a week, I didn't see the kids Monday to Friday, I was a weekend dad and that was it.
I wasn't particularly happy in that setup and that life, but out here working remotely, I'm able to drop him school a couple of times a week, I'm always there for breakfast, always there to cook dinner at night, always there to kind of be part of those key moments.
My son will come home from school and he'll be like, how's your day from work dad? How's this deal going? Have you picked up any new opportunities?
And my daughter's even worse. Often I'll be like, oh I lost the deal, she's seven years old and she just turns around to me and says, "well dad you just need to concentrate more and work harder don't you?"
We had an amazing moment at the end of last quarter. I was way behind on my target for the quarter. Last day of the quarter and there was this big, big large deal that I was trying to get in. It kept getting pushed back and then we managed to get it signed literally at about six o'clock on the line and the kids were all there for that.
They saw my stress beforehand and then the elation when it came through. The first thing we did was I put the phone down and we all just went and jumped into the swimming pool together.
That must be so amazing for them to see you have a win like that and experience it with you. It almost feels like they are part of your journey as well. When you did make the transition, how did that work with clients?
That transition was very easy. The customers I work with on a day-to-day, I think they really like the idea that I'm in Spain because I'm talking to them about global freelancing and remote work hiring solutions.
So me being here and kind of eating my own dog food just helps to add some credibility to what I'm talking about.
Remote and freelance work, you need a lot of self-discipline. The thing I've got in the back of my head is I don't get paid unless I do what I need to do. And the risk of it going wrong with my family over here is not an option. So I think my level of motivation is a lot higher than someone who might be in their first or second job and be like, "oh, I could leave this job and I'll go somewhere else."
You know, for me, failure is not an option.
But I like it. I feel alive when I'm taking risks. I like what I do, which makes it a lot easier.
A PRUPOSE DRIVEN BUSINESS
I know you to be very successful what you've done in the past, but then at the grand old age of 38 you decided to go it alone and be a freelancer and then you decided to double down and become a remote working freelancer.
Freelancing has always been at the center of my career. Even the first ever proper job that I got was working as a recruitment consultant, but that role was getting jobs for freelancers in technology and digital.
I did that in the UK and then abroad in Dubai for a while and had some success at that and thought I reckon I could start my own business.
And I guess it was when I made that transition that my outlook on work really fundamentally changed because what I didn't like about the old school recruitment industry, it was very transactional, numbers driven, you were always doing it to help yourself rather than feeling like you're having a greater impact.
And it was when we got connected and I worked for your business Shib that I really had that first insight into working for a purpose-driven business where actually there was something much bigger at play than you hitting your own numbers and earning money. And actually, you know, I can use my skills and knowledge to have a really positive impact on the world.
Firstly, that's very nice of you to say. We're actually going to keep that in the film. But I think you're right, it's more than just a trend right? I think it's a real movement because people want more out of their lives. People want to live life on their own terms.
A GLOBAL COMMUNITY OF NOMADS
So this street's quite interesting. This isn't anything that the council have done, This is literally the residents feeling a sense of community and pride in their street, really.
That concept of community resonates so much with freelancing. And especially with remote workers, because you know, you could feel so isolated. This idea of community helps with that disconnectedness, right?
Absolutely. You know, that's not unique to Javier. I think you can go to most cities in the world now and find communities of freelancers and remote workers. And everybody of that mindset is very willing to engage and meet new people.
And some may be working in UX or security or sales or digital marketing. It's not like you're talking about work, all the time, but you're similar-minded people.
Do you feel like a tourist, a local, or even a digital nomad?
I definitely don't feel like a tourist. I probably definitely don't feel like a local. I'm learning my Spanish and I'm getting there but I feel a lot more local if I was fluent in Spanish. I don't know if I ever would feel like a local because I'm not. I think a digital nomad is a great way to sum it up really.
I'm place agnostic.
REMOTE FREELANCING TRENDS
Have you seen any difference in trends from when you started freelancing to today?
Well, I guess the big thing now is remote work has been really normalised in the freelancing community. And people know it's possible and it can be done. You're finding a lot of the big tech companies that are doing U-turns now and saying, actually, we want everyone back in the office. You know, we want more permanent employees who are in the office. And other businesses who are doing, you know, the complete opposite, really embracing hiring more freelancers, having a more, you know, globally distributed model to how they deliver work. And what's right for a business is just down to their own individual culture.
It is sometimes a bit tough in that transition - especially when the economy gets tough and people aren't posting the results that they were before, people often kind of go back to what they know and what they feel comfortable with, and a lot of leadership want that more direct control of stuff in the office, and that's their culture.
Do you think that's a crutch, though?
It is, and there's definitely a lot of great studies out there on the effectiveness of remote work. And I've seen lots that show correlations between success in profitability of companies who are remote, but none that have actually shown the opposite, where, you know, bringing people back into the office is more productive.
NEW BUSINESS STRUCTURES
Well, welcome to my place, Shib. Casa Rosevear!
This I think raises a pretty important point. This is an amazing place, this infinity pool, this incredible casa, this view. Someone watching this might think, "well that's all very well and good for Roly, he must be absolutely loaded!"
And that's how he can do this remote working in this style.
Well, the thing with this is we haven't gone out and bought this house in Spain. We're digital nomads and we've come out here for a period of time, invested an amount of money in that rent in exchange for some great memories as a family. We're moving on from here soon on to the next adventure, which will be sad to go, but you know, they're memories that no one can ever take away and you know, worth it for the investment for the short period of time really.
England's a very expensive place, and there's lots of other countries that are far cheaper, where you can live a much higher standard of life for a fraction of what it would cost you if you were back in the UK. There's loads of interesting countries coming up, like Bulgaria and Albania, which are really cheap, and you can have views like this and houses at a fraction of the price if you're able to still continue to earn the same money remotely as you were back in the UK.
It's also important to remember, you're not on holiday. I'm here to work. I have to work hard and put a lot of hours in. The thing is, this style of working would not have been possible five years ago. You know, the cultural evolution of kind of Slack and Teams, the office ecosystem for communication, and even just the way that the businesses tackle knowledge management now. Like, it used to be to understand a business, you had to extract knowledge from a person. Now everyone's so good at documenting information and you've got all these systems like Notion that you can be remote and you don't have to ask a person the answer. The information is documented.
You can follow the paper trail and documentation. And the businesses have to be set up that way. And I think that's why some businesses have done the return to office thing and drifted towards permanent in-house employees because they're not set up in a remote way.
